Help spread the word / share us on your favorite social media networks

Facebook Twitter StumbleUpon Reddit LinkedIn

Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup
Don't let your house go up in Flames! Get it Right the First time!

Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup

CLICK HERE

Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup
Residential Wiring - The Right Way!

Wiring Information for the Do It Yourself Homeowner

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5

    Question Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup

    Good morning,

    I'm in a northern suburb of Chicago, and recently had some professionals install a 4-way switch setup for my exterior lights at my home. I've since decided to replace one of the 3-ways with a Honeywell Timer Switch. I don't know the first thing about wiring, but as the switches are wired now, it's working. That is, when I toggle any of the switches in the setup, the lights turn on or off. The setup is Front Door [3way] - Garage Front [4way] - Garage Rear [3way]. I want to replace either the Front Door 3way or Garage Rear 3way with the timer switch. Here's how the 3-way at the front door is wired:

    Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup-2017-03-07-02-33-46-jpg

    The timer switch is a Honeywell PLS750C1000. It says it can be used in 3-way applications. Inside the box with the front door switch I believe there is also a white, and a black. The orange wires are travelers I think.. although I don't really know what that means. From what I saw, there are 2 different orange wires that make their way around the setup. The electricians pulled a new circuit for this project, and as far as I know they didn't steal from any existing wiring. White and yellow wires go to the lights themselves (house white to fixture white, yellow to fixture black).

    All of that said, can someone help me to wire this switch correctly? The manual talks about jumpering the 'other' 3-way switch in the setup, which I don't think would blanketly apply here. I'm not sure how to proceed. Please let me know if I can provide more info, for example pictures of the other switches.

    If the Honeywell can't be used in a system with a 4way, that's fine, please let me know. Since it seems to be 3way capable, I'm not sure why it couldn't be used. If there is a different/better timer switch that I need, I'm happy to pick one up.

    Thank you so much for any guidance you can provide.
    -pd
    Last edited by packetdog; 03-07-2017 at 05:04 AM. Reason: Add Location

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Lala land, OH
    Posts
    238

    Default

    It will take some effort to make this work in your circuit and it may be beyond your abilities. You may want to contact your electrician and have them install it. I don't see it taking a professional more then a hour. Likely less. You will need to be very comfortable with how 3/4 way circuits function to be able to do this.

    I looked up the manual and the way this switch works in a 3 way circuit is that it removes the 3 way circuit alltogether and the remote switch is just a basic light switch (1 traveler sends constant power and the other traveler becomes the switched wire). The timer senses the change in state of the remote switch and does what it needs to make it behave like a 3 way circuit. You could in theory take the other 2 switches in your 4 way circuit and convert them to a 3 way circuit. The output of that circuit would function the same as a single switch.

    Chicago has some different electrical code laws (something to do with a big fire a while back). It looks like you have conduit (one of their different code requirements). You will run across wire colors that are different from what you find in normal residential wiring (and any guides online). Green is still ground, white is still neutral. Any other color is some kind of hot wire. Most guides you will run across use red and black as hot wires.

    If you want to tackle this yourself I can make up a diagram.. We will need to know where power enters the circuit at.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
    We will need to know where power enters the circuit at.
    Hi Mr. T, thanks for the help. I'm not that savvy, but I have a few friends who are, and even they are baffled by this. I took some photos of the other switches, which I think shows power entering the circuit. It seems like you're saying the 4-way switch in the middle comes out completely, and the 3 way is used instead, so it's (LOAD) > Timer Switch - [3-way] - [3-way]. Maybe I don't understand that correctly. Again, I appreciate the assistance, and any direction you can provide. In these photos, it's the red switch "made in mexico".

    'Start' of the circuit, load enters on Blue Wire into 3-way switch:
    Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup-2017-03-24-20-44-18-jpg

    'Middle' of the circuit, travellers in and out, 4-way switch:
    Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup-2017-03-24-20-43-28-jpg

    Then, the 'end' of the circuit is the photo above.

    Thanks so much.
    -pd

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Still no closer to solving this- but I wanted to ask this: Is there a better or different timer switch to use in this application? I'm open to suggestions to something that will work better in a 4-way setup. Thanks for any direction you can provide.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent, WA
    Posts
    219

    Default

    I need to know a few more details to be sure, but I'm assuming the following:

    • That the power starts for this at the front door (on the yellow wire).
    • There this is a neutral in this circuit (white wire) from power source to the light, and possibly spliced or just running through the 4-way switch box.
    • The the switched light is at the garage rear door on the blue wire.
    • The the two travelers are identified with a black tape flag (so you can tell traveler 1 from traveler 2).
    • This is the wiring diagram for your switch http://s3.supplyhouse.com/product_fi...User-Guide.pdf
    • That this will work on a 4-way circuit. I think you have to always have power on the black wire of the timer, and putting power on the yellow wire will cause it to reverse state.

    If this is correct, wire per the picture below. Note the following:
    • The yellow wire on the 3-way moves to a different terminal. Note that the middle terminal on the 3-way switch (common) is a dark colored screw on the switch (that is how you tell it from the other two).
    • The little black loops are jumper wires you need to add.
    • You remove the orange wires from the 4-way (bottom set of travelers in the drawing) and wire nut them together with a little jumper wire. The orange with black tape travelers (top set of travelers on drawing) also get removed from the switch and get wire nutted together along with a jumper wire.
    • You don't need a 4-way switch with this timer (and they are tricky to wire -- when you flip that switch the connection goes from straight to criss crossed). You can replace the 4-way with a normal switch that connects to the jumpers from the orange nut and the orange-black nut.
    • Make sure to turn the power off before you start (verify with a meter), and carefully document what you have in case you need to restore it. This will be a wacky install and will confuse someone if they try to put it back to normal without the timer.
    • Note that the switch instructions say that if the timer doesn't power up, to turn the circuit off and swap the blue and black wires at the timer.


    Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup-capture-jpg
    Last edited by suemarkp; 05-14-2017 at 12:06 AM.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent, WA
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Wait! Don't do this yet. It will have some issues with the 3 and 4 way switch. There is a very easy solution. All you need is one other wire, and that is easy since you have conduit. I'll work on a new drawing later today.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent, WA
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Most people have cable wiring, so I focus on not running new wires (as you can't with a cable unless you rip into the walls). With conduit, all you need to do is run a power wire through the conduit run to power the honeywell switch (I'd use yellow if the power feed to this circuit is that first yellow wire so it is consistent). This yellow wire will go to the black wire on the honeywell switch. Then, you need to replace the 4-way switch with a 3-way and you'll abandon one of the travelers from the 4-way to the garage rear (just tape the ends and leave the wire there). The output of the 3-way run goes to the yellow on the honeywell switch (where the blue is now). The blue to the light goes to the blue on the honeywell timer. White goes to white. If wires are missing or things are not as I have assumed, you'll need to post back with how things are different.

    Adding Honeywell Timer Switch to Working 4-way Setup-capture-jpg
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
    I need to know a few more details to be sure, but I'm assuming the following:

    [LIST][*]That the power starts for this at the front door (on the yellow wire).[*]There this is a neutral in this circuit (white wire) from power source to the light, and possibly spliced or just running through the 4-way switch box.
    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the reply. As far as I know, power is on the blue wire at the garage rear. I said LOAD above, but really it's power. The yellow wire at the front door is going to the outside light nearest that switch.

    You know what, let me confirm it, I'm just not sure. I want to be correct so we don't waste everyone's time. I'm under the impression that all wiring in this circuit was replaced, and the only one that wasn't went to that light outside. The other 3 outside lights are new, and thus have new wiring. So, if I'm understanding correctly, I need to know:
    - Where does power enter the circuit
    - Where do the lights connect to the circuit

    Let me see if I can get the folks that wired it to have a look at this thread.

    Thanks,
    -pd

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent, WA
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Yes, and also:
    Is there a white wire or grey from power source to light that is in this whole conduit wiring path?
    Where do you want the timer switch -- at the power source, at the box with the wire to the light, or at the 4-way location?
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
    Yes, and also:
    Is there a white wire or grey from power source to light that is in this whole conduit wiring path?
    Where do you want the timer switch -- at the power source, at the box with the wire to the light, or at the 4-way location?
    Hey Mark,

    Ideally I'd like the timer switch at the front door location (first photo) but my more-electrically-savvy buddies then I tried it there and the switch didn't seem to function. If necessary we can put it at any of the switch locations.. whatever works I guess. It would be nice to alter the program from inside the house, but I doubt I'll be doing that often, so it probably doesn't matter much.

    I know not having the detail makes it much harder to help- I sent them the link to this thread this morning. Hopefully they can help to answer some of these questions.

    Thanks,
    -pd

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •